Dougie’s Monday Mailbag (Subsequent for Herring, Frampton’s legacy, Ennis vs. Ortiz) – The Ring


Jamel Herring celebrates victory as Carl Frampton reacts following their WBO 130-pound title bout at The Rotunda at Caesars Palace in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. (Photograph by Francois Nel/Getty Photographs)

A BRIDGE TOO FAR

Dougie,

I simply completed watching the Carl Frampton vs Jamel Herring combat…YOU MADE THE POST FIGHT INTERVIEW!!! RingTV and Dubai! Clearly, you’ve come an extended methods and I hope your star continues to rise.

Nonetheless, my theme is little guys over-reaching. I can’t consider anyone aside from his hardcore followers really thought Frampton might climb Mt. Herring. SIZE MATTERS!!! An excellent massive man will virtually at all times beat a very good smaller man and Herring is an enormous Jr. Light-weight. I really couldn’t consider Carl might rise up after the way in which he went down from the uppercut. There was no query of his toughness and I do hope he retains his phrase and enjoys his retirement.

The questions:

If Frampton doesn’t keep retired, then what do you consider one other combat with Leo Santa Cruz at 130? Each appear really in between weight lessons and would nonetheless match properly.

Jamel Herring vs Oscar Valdez? Valdez proved he can nonetheless swat at 130, however Herring appears extra versatile than Berchelt. Ideas? How exhausting is it for him to make 130? How regarding are the cuts on the identical eye on consecutive fights?

Herring vs Shakur? Two huge Jr. Lightweights, however I’m undecided this is able to be a enjoyable combat. Shakur has stepped it up somewhat these days, however his opposition hasn’t been pretty much as good as Herring. Do you even wish to see this one?

Lastly, who was the perfect little man transferring up? I’m leaning towards Pacquiao, however Roberto Duran positively deserves consideration.

PS: I obtained my Ryan Garcia problem of The Ring, however haven’t obtained the Frazier-Ali commemorative but. Ought to I be involved?

Congrats in your worldwide name out and sustain the good work! – Scott

Thanks Scott, I’ll attempt to not let Herring’s shout-out go to my head.

Relating to the Frazier-Ali Particular (April 2021), it got here earlier than the Ryan Garcia cowl (Might 2021), so yeah you have to be involved. Name this quantity: 1-800-846-6438 or electronic mail [email protected], give them your subscriber information. and inform them you didn’t get the April 2021 problem.

Frampton (left) and Santa Cruz go at it a second time. How a couple of rubber match? Photograph by Esther Lin

If Frampton doesn’t keep retired, then what do you consider one other combat with Leo Santa Cruz at 130? Each appear really in between weight lessons and would nonetheless match properly. If he nonetheless has the itch for yet another combat, the rubber match with Santa Cruz makes essentially the most sense (and cash). Each are coming off devastating stoppages, they’ve received the historical past and identify recognition to make it a giant occasion, and, as you famous, their kinds mesh properly within the ring. If I have been advising Frampton, I’d solely comply with it if Santa Cruz have been keen to journey to Belfast, and I’d additionally attempt to do it at 126 or at a 128-pound catchweight.

Jamel Herring vs Oscar Valdez? Valdez proved he can nonetheless swat at 130, however Herring appears extra versatile than Berchelt. Ideas? I agree. Valdez’s iron will, bodily energy (and underrated boxing means/punch-accuracy) makes him a menace to any junior light-weight, however Herring is a greater boxer/technician than Berchelt, who relied an excessive amount of on his dimension and energy. It might be fascinating to see what sort of recreation plans Eddy Reynoso and BoMac provide you with for his or her fighters.

How exhausting is it for him to make 130? It’s not straightforward. I’m pondering Valdez is perhaps the one fighter he’s keen to make junior light-weight for once more.

How regarding are the cuts on the identical eye on consecutive fights? It’s gotta be a priority for Crew Herring as a result of I do know it’s going to be a goal for whoever he fights going ahead.

Herring vs Shakur? Two huge Jr. Lightweights, however I’m undecided this is able to be a enjoyable combat. That matchup has “tactical chess match” written throughout it. Some people are actually into that. Most should not that into it.

Shakur has stepped it up somewhat these days, however his opposition hasn’t been pretty much as good as Herring. Do you even wish to see this one? I do, however I’m not in hurry to see it. I don’t care to see this matchup subsequent. Herring has earned the suitable for a high-profile/big-money combat, which Valdez can present instantly, whereas Stevenson (as gifted as he’s) nonetheless has some dues to pay at 130 kilos and must develop his model/fan base somewhat extra.

Duran at battle with Iran Barkley within the 1989 Ring Journal Struggle of the Yr. Photograph from The Ring archive

Lastly, who was the perfect little man transferring up? I’m leaning towards Pacquiao, however Roberto Duran positively deserves consideration. You may’t go flawed with both warrior, however I’m 50 years outdated, so I’m gonna lean towards Palms of Stone. You gotta love {that a} former undisputed light-weight champ took on Marvin Hagler for the undisputed middleweight championship in the course of the Marvelous One’s prime and went 15 aggressive rounds together with his fellow ATG, after which, at age 37, gained a significant 160-pound title by outpointing Iran Barkley (who had stopped the guy ATG who had blitzed him at 154 kilos). It’s also possible to add Henry Armstrong, Thomas Hearns, James Toney, Tony Canzoneri and Sam Langford in that blend.

 

BOOTS VS. ORTIZ

Hello Doug,

If Jaron Ennis and Vergil Ortiz fought tomorrow, who would you decide? – Ross, Norwich, UK

I do not know. I used to be leaning towards Ortiz by way of late stoppage or shut choice previous to his step-up vs. Mo Hooker, however the fee his fellow Texan was capable of put palms on him has me a bit involved (though I’m holding in thoughts that Ortiz was recovering from COVID-19). Ennis’ mixtures are more durable, quicker and extra fluid than Hooker’s salvos. However then once more, I haven’t seen Boots stand as much as a world-class puncher, and Ortiz has fairly good approach to again up some savvy strikes.

I let you know what, Ross, ask me this query subsequent Sunday, the day after Ennis takes on his step-up vs. Sergey Lipinets. That bout ought to give us extra somewhat extra perception on Philly’s newest reward to boxing.

 

THE BETTER MAN WON

Hello Doug,

Hope you the household and staff are all holding properly.

Was unhappy to see Carl Frampton shut curtains on his service. He’s a properly cherished fighter this aspect of the pond with nice nights behind him and wins over Quigg, Martinez and Santa Cruz. Nonetheless, there isn’t a disgrace is that loss to easily the higher man on the evening.

I had the primary three rounds to Herring, spherical 3 was shut. Frampton accomplished rather well within the 4th and it appeared just like the tide was turning after Jamel was lower.

I feel each fighters adjusted properly to one another’s model. The athleticism of years previous could not have been there, however they each introduced a ton of expertise and ring IQ to the desk.

The 2 knockdowns have been good by Herring. Nicely timed and positioned pictures. Contemplating the bleeding I feel he answered quite a lot of critics after his final outing.

What did you make of the stoppage and when the towel got here in? I assumed it was spot on, there was completely no want for Frampton to take anymore punishment.

Herring is receiving quite a lot of reward within the U.Okay. press right now and it’s properly deserved. He took a harmful combat to show some extent. He overcame one other lower to cease a battle-hardened veteran.

Additionally received to notice the whole class proven by each after the combat. That’s what younger fighters have to be aware of.

So Frampton has mentioned he’ll retire. I hope he does and want him properly.

What would you wish to see Herring do subsequent? He talked about a unification combat with Valdez and a transfer as much as 135. He’s big at 130. How do you assume he’d get with Valdez?

How about Tank, Farmer or Stevenson? His dimension is a particular benefit towards these guys, however is it sufficient?

Lastly, I observed Herring gave you a shout out on the finish of the combat? What’s the story?

MM:

Frampton vs McGuigan

Keep protected and sustain the great work. – Tabraze, London U.Okay.

I gotta go along with McGuigan, who isn’t as tall as Herring however would current the identical attain benefit and stylistic problem that the American, by shut however unanimous choice (particularly if we’re speaking a couple of 15-round bout).

I’d view Herring as a slight favourite vs. Gervonta Davis and Tevin Farmer and would decide him to win selections over each. I think about Stevenson, a uncommon, probably elite-level expertise, to be a slight favourite over Herring.

Quigg battles outdated rival Carl Frampton. Photograph courtesy of Matchroom Boxing

Was unhappy to see Carl Frampton shut curtains on his service. He’s a properly cherished fighter this aspect of the pond with nice nights behind him and wins over Quigg, Martinez and Santa Cruz. I used to be ringside for the showdown vs. Scott Quigg (who I assumed would win an epic barnburner – which tells you ways a lot I learn about boxing LOL) and I’ll always remember that environment. Frampton introduced Belfast to Manchester they usually took over that storied area, the vitality his followers delivered to that occasion was virtually overwhelming. I used to be freakin’ out when it was evident that the official judges one way or the other had it a cut up choice, and was desperately searching for an escape route out of the sector or a protected place to crawl underneath (possibly the ring itself) prior the third scorecard being learn as a result of, God forbid, had it been for Quigg all hell would have damaged unfastened. Fortunately the suitable man gained, and people loopy (drunk) Frampton followers have been the perfect. I met some actual characters that evening.

Nonetheless, there isn’t a disgrace is that loss to easily the higher man on the evening. Certainly, Herring placed on a near-perfect efficiency, the perfect of his professional profession. Shout out to BoMac for the suitable recreation plan, and naturally to Herring, who put it into play with actual conviction. We overlook that the person was a 2012 U.S. Olympian, the staff captain, in actual fact, and a Marine. He’s received mad talent and coronary heart.

I had the primary three rounds to Herring, spherical 3 was shut. Frampton accomplished rather well within the 4th and it appeared just like the tide was turning after Jamel was lower. I scored each spherical for Herring, who managed the middle of the ring and constantly beat Frampton to the punch with a wide range of correct pictures, however I can see Spherical 4 going to the Belfast native. I assumed Frampton lastly received into his groove in Spherical 5 when he started to swarm the defending champ, however as quickly as I Tweeted that he was doing the “proper factor,” Herring dumped him on his butt.

The 2 knockdowns have been good by Herring. Nicely timed and positioned pictures. Contemplating the bleeding I feel he answered quite a lot of critics after his final outing. No person ought to have questioned his character. I assumed it was humorous that each Tim Bradley and Andre Ward stored citing Herring’s “doubters” (on the ESPN+ broadcast) once they have been Herring’s primary critics throughout and instantly following his DQ win over Jonathan Oquendo.

What did you make of the stoppage and when the towel got here in? I assumed it was spot on, there was completely no want for Frampton to take anymore punishment. I assumed the nook did the suitable factor on the good time. I’d wish to assume that the referee was nearly to cease it earlier than the towel was tossed into the ring.

Jamel Herring (right) vs. Masayuki Ito. Photo by Mikey Williams/Top Rank

Jamel Herring (proper) vs. Masayuki Ito. Photograph by Mikey Williams/Prime Rank

Herring is receiving quite a lot of reward within the U.Okay. press right now and it’s properly deserved. He took a harmful combat to show some extent. He overcame one other lower to cease a battle-hardened veteran. I’m glad the British media is giving Herring his due. He’s earned it, and my guess is that the Ring Scores Panel will vote to raise him into the highest three of the junior light-weight rankings (becoming a member of Gervonta Davis and Oscar Valdez). To this point throughout his six-bout, four-year junior light-weight marketing campaign, Herring has upset a hardnosed Japanese slugger (Masayuki Ito) for the WBO title and defended it towards a gifted, undefeated younger technician (Lamont Roach) and a battle-tested two-division titleholder. Not too shabby!

Additionally received to notice the whole class proven by each after the combat. That’s what younger fighters have to be aware of. Herring and Frampton are as stylish and charming as prize fighters come. We’re positively going to overlook Carl, so we must always recognize Jamel whereas we’ve received him.  

So Frampton has mentioned he’ll retire. I hope he does and want him properly. Me too.

What would you wish to see Herring do subsequent? He talked about a unification combat with Valdez and a transfer as much as 135. He’s big at 130. How do you assume he’d get with Valdez? I feel it’s a good combat and the most effective matchups that may be made at junior light-weight.

Lastly, I observed Herring gave you a shout out on the finish of the combat? What’s the story? Herring and Brian McIntyre have focused the Ring Journal championship from the second they united to revamp his profession at 130 kilos (BoMac instructed me so on the 2019 Boxing Writers Affiliation of America awards dinner in NYC). Herring gained The Ring’s 2019 Comeback of the Yr award, however neither man was content material with that. Each are good and bold with a deep respect for boxing historical past. They need greater than sanctioning physique titles, cash and fame; they wish to forge a long-lasting legacy. They consider The Ring title equals glory. In case you don’t consider me, simply ask them. And whilst you’re chatting with them, inform them they’re getting very near their purpose.

 

WHYTE’S ALRIGHT

On a second watch again, Dougie, I observed after the combat that Dillian Whyte goes to Povetkin’s nook to evaluate his work and sees no stool for his opponent. He goes again to his personal nook; will get one (from exterior the ring I would add) again to Povetkin’s nook, provides him the seat and proceeds to water his head.

A lot as I really like a mud up, it’s the human tales that rely typically.

Provides the game depth. Peace. – Kev, Edinburgh

It does certainly, Kev. I don’t get all the disdain for Whyte that I see on social media and in remark part posts. He looks as if a very good bloke to me. Given his high quality of his opposition, I’d respect him as a fighter even when he have been a bastard, however he appears to care about his fellow warriors (regardless of the s__t he typically talks previous to their fights).

 

THE END OF CARL FRAMPTON

Hello Dougie,

So, after an extended and superb profession, Carl Frampton has retired. He was a incredible advert for British and Irish boxing and was a very fashionable fighter internationally as properly. An exquisite profession and we are going to miss the joy he delivered to the game.

Going into the Jamel Herring combat, I had the acquainted voice of Duke Evers from Rocky II in my head: ‘He’s all flawed for us, child…’ Herring is a tall fighter with a beneficiant attain. He’s robust and an accurate if not an enormous puncher. He has an excellent engine, may be very powerful and in the end he’s well-schooled. While Frampton was thought-about a troublesome combat for him, it’s truthful to say it was a small super-featherweight vs an enormous one. I assumed Herring would win a troublesome choice combat however a stoppage defeat wasn’t an enormous shock, on condition that I felt Jamel was a nightmare for Carl. Even at Frampton’s peak, I think this man could have been a handful for him.

Carl mentioned in his post-fight interview that he felt that his coaching had been higher than ever. I’ve to disagree with him. I don’t see that he has been the identical power since Shane McGuigan stopped coaching him. I do know there have been well-publicised causes for Carl parting firm with Cyclone Promotions, and de facto Shane, however I really feel the change in trainers didn’t work in his favour. The stats don’t lie: Frampton was 5-2 underneath Jamie Moore, and each instances he stepped as much as world title degree he was handily crushed. OK, he had a good win over Nonito Donaire, however he was virtually stopped by a non-puncher in Josh Warrington in addition to being handily stopped by Herring.

Now it might be a coincidence that Carl’s peak was already winding down after he left Shane, however you possibly can’t argue together with his performances while being skilled by him. Two spectacular victories over Kiko Martinez, a cushty unification choice win over Scott Quigg, and he cut up two sensational bouts with Leo Santa Cruz, with the second being solely a detailed win for the Mexican.

I feel Carl has had an exquisite profession, all instructed. The massive query I’ve for you, Dougie is that this: Canastota – sure or no?

Type regards. – Paul

Off the highest of my head, with out taking a look at his file, I might have instructed you that Frampton is, at finest, a borderline candidate for the Worldwide Boxing Corridor of Fame. Nonetheless, upon nearer inspection, I feel his identify will ultimately seem on the IBHOF poll and I consider he’ll be voted in however solely after Nonito Donaire and Leo Santa Cruz are inducted.

Frampton cracks Martinez with a proper en path to his first world title win. Photograph courtesy of Sky Sports activities

I feel Frampton made essentially the most of his 31-bout professional profession. He might have had a financially profitable run in Belfast however he was keen to go away his hometown for world-class challenges as evidenced by his two bouts in 2016 – Quigg in Manchester and Santa Cruz in NYC (when his opponents’ mixed information have been a powerful 63-0-3) – which earned him The Ring’s historic Fighter of the Yr award. Add the UD over Donaire and the slew of teak-tough Hispanic warriors he confronted – Martinez (twice), Raul Hirales, Alejandro Gonzalez Jr., Horacio Garcia and Chris Avalos – and also you’re taking a look at a professional ledger to be very happy with.

Going into the Jamel Herring combat, I had the acquainted voice of Duke Evers from Rocky II in my head: ‘He’s all flawed for us, child…’ That Duke voice in our heads will seldom steer us flawed however I perceive why anybody picked Frampton beat Herring, and it comes right down to that outdated adage “You’re solely pretty much as good as your final combat” – the American didn’t appear like a world-beater vs. Oquendo, and Frampton has upset the chances earlier than.

Herring is a tall fighter with a beneficiant attain. He’s robust and an accurate if not an enormous puncher. He has an excellent engine, may be very powerful and in the end he’s well-schooled. You may say the identical issues about Leo Santa Cruz going into his first bout with Frampton. They gotta combat the combat. However it’s apparent that Frampton has misplaced a step since 2016 and isn’t as sharp at 130 as he was at 126.

While Frampton was thought-about a troublesome combat for him, it’s truthful to say it was a small super-featherweight vs an enormous one. Shoot, it’s truthful to say that Frampton was a blown-up junior featherweight dealing with a giant light-weight who boiled right down to junior light-weight.

I assumed Herring would win a troublesome choice combat however a stoppage defeat wasn’t an enormous shock, on condition that I felt Jamel was a nightmare for Carl. Even at Frampton’s peak, I think this man could have been a handful for him. You’re most likely proper about that, particularly on condition that Frampton was a 122 pounder at his peak.

Carl mentioned in his post-fight interview that he felt that his coaching had been higher than ever. I’ve to disagree with him. It’s gotta suck being an expert fighter or professional coach. Anytime you lose a combat, you’re second-guessed by individuals who don’t do what you do.

I don’t see that he has been the identical power since Shane McGuigan stopped coaching him. I do know there have been well-publicised causes for Carl parting firm with Cyclone Promotions, and de facto Shane, however I really feel the change in trainers didn’t work in his favour. You is perhaps proper. Shane’s a heck of a coach, his monitor file speaks for itself, however who’s to say that he’d have had any extra success with Frampton vs. the likes of Warrington and Herring than Jamie Moore?

The stats don’t lie: Frampton was 5-2 underneath Jamie Moore, and each instances he stepped as much as world title degree he was handily crushed. OK, he had a good win over Nonito Donaire, however he was virtually stopped by a non-puncher in Josh Warrington in addition to being handily stopped by Herring. That’s a technique to have a look at it, however one other perspective is to offer Warrington and Herring their due credit score for preventing the perfect fights of their respective professional careers vs. Frampton.

 

LUIS ORTIZ

Hey Dougie,

Why is Luis Ortiz ranked so excessive?! What has he accomplished that ranks him over Parker and Ruiz? He’s barely been extra energetic than Ruiz, with one combat in 2020 towards Alexander Flores, in comparison with Ruiz’s zero, and Joseph Parker has fought stiffer competitors and gained. I’d even say Hunter’s controversial draw over Povetkin is extra spectacular than any of Ortiz’s wins. Thanks. – Joe

That’s an fascinating argument, Joe. I can’t communicate for the members of the Ring Scores Panel, however if you’d like

Ortiz (proper) carried out properly in two shedding efforts to Deontay Wilder. Photograph by Ryan Hafey/PBC

to succeed in out to those that are on social media, you may get them to reveal their opinions on the journal’s heavyweight rankings supplied you strategy them with respect.

I’m not a King Kong advocate, however my guess is that almost all of the Panel believes that having Deontay Wilder out on his toes throughout their back-and-forth first bout and being forward on the official scorecards previous to getting clipped of their rematch, plus Ortiz’s stoppages of Bryant Jennings and Tony Thompson, are extra spectacular than Parker’s wins over Andy Ruiz, Carlos Takam and Hugie Fury or his choice losses towards Anthony Joshua and Dillian Whyte; or Ruiz splitting bouts with AJ and dropping a aggressive choice to Parker.

 

 

Electronic mail Fischer at [email protected]. Observe him on Twitter and IG at @dougiefischer, and be part of him, Tom Loeffler, Coach Schwartz and pals by way of Tom’s IG or Doug’s YouTube channel each Sunday.

 



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